‘My brother: Cheapskate? Or just frugal?’

I can relate to cheapskate relatives. I have been going out with a guy for ten years. His grandmother always gives everyone a card with nothing in it for christmas or birthdays. She never goes out to shop to buy any gifts for any of us. She accepts gifts for chrismtas or her birthday and all the help she asks from us around her house for free. His brother has three kids. He always has his kids write up a wish list for us to see what they want for chrismas or birthdays, but he and his kids never bother to ask what we want. He calls us to remind us when one of his kids birthdays is coming up. He would call us and say why dont we pitch in for some new hockey equipment or whatever. His brother never makes any effort to go out to shop for any nice gifts for either of us. His sister, who lives out of the state, makes a good income at her job, and she travels all over by air. But when christmas time or birthdays come up, she gives very cheap gifts. For example this past christmas, we got a small tin of homemade cookies. To me, homemade cookies are something that you give it to neighbors, people in church, co workers. Usually you should give something nice to your family, not homemade cookies! Or any gifts that cost less than 5 dollars! I think that is an insult from a gifter!! Every time Christmas or a birthday comes up, my boyfriend and I always get into fight over gift giving issues. He always thinks of something nice to give but he tends to get crummy gifts from his family or worse nothing from one of them! His father is worse… he thinks about himself and buys stuff for himself and never gives us gifts for any occasions. I hate cheap people! I hate frugality!

My partner’s brother is really starting to get on my nerves. Each Christmas he is asked what he and his family would like as presents and he reels off his list for himself and 2 young children, though rarely mentions what his wife desires. He then asks my partner what he would like, which generally consists of several DVDs, though again, he doesn’t ask what I would like. By the time we have purchased the presents, adding one of similar value for his wife, the total is about one hundred pounds plus. My partner in return receives a couple of DVDs off the list, whilst I get a set of bubble bath and soap etc. The difference in what they and us spend each year is about 70 pounds. What can I do? My partner feels that because they have children and we don’t, their budget has to be tighter, but I just think it’s cheeky. If we had kids, I know that they would get cheap presents as well. Please can someone give me an opinion? I really feel like tutting when I open my seasonal package of rubbish, but my partner prefers that I don’t rock the boat.

We got two gifts this Christmas from our neice. Mine was an old scarf in the worst possible taste inside a dirty, much used cellophane bag with wilting/rotting scotch tape. His was braces with the sale tag still on the back which showed sales going back a few years, many crossings out to the final sale price and a crumpled tie that must have come from an open market bin - you know 20 for a pound(dollar) and one free.

In the past this neice would deliver her Christmas gifts in May - now she gets her Mom to give them to us(I protested- why bother - just save them up from year to year or keep re-cycling) when we have our brother-sister lunch before Christmas. We went out of our way for 40 years to be more than kind and nurturing to this neice and only gave her the best we could and then some - guess we truly spoiled her.

Do any of you know why she is being so insulting? Most of us take the NEW price tags off the gifts- it is just what we were taught - isn’t it- but this is beyond the pale and looks as if it is a pointed insult. I would like to write to her about this and tell her to stop giving us gifts and to make a donation to charity she likes instead. Why waste the money.

I think that it is better to try and state the chagrin clearly than to let the family gunge continue to accumulate.

It is better not to give anything if you are going to give something so awful just for the “sake” of it. I think she just wanted Mummy and Daddy to see that she was giving us something. Should I tell her parents or is that too adolescent of me?

After 24 years of seeing a depressed look on my husband’s face after opening another gift from his family, I found this blog. For years we have taken the time to buy appropriate gifts priced from the moderate to expensive in keeping with our financial situation. Although my husband’s family members are all well to do, their gifts (with the exception of one member) are thoughtless, cheap, and useless. I cannot stand to see my husband hurt anymore, and apparently neither can he, for he has said this is the last year of gift exchange.I f you think that a gift is just a gift, you are wrong. A gift is a token that is supposed to express how you feel about someone. Therefore,if that expression is one of dismissal at holiday and birthday times, perhaps you need to look at yourself and think about what is making you act so hurtful.

It is obvious that most of you do not have a cheapskate in your family. It is excruciatingly frustrating putting up with a selfish cheapskate in our family. The monetary aspect of any type of giving is devoid of value if the giver’s motivation is less than altruistic. If a gift is given with love, respect, and thoughtfulness, then it is a perfect gift. If a gift is given out of duty or some sort of traditional mandate, then it matters not at all to the receiver. Living with a cheapskate in a family is always fraught with disappointment because it is not about money, it is about lack of respect and laziness to come up with a way to express a heartfelt expression of appreciation, respect and love for those closest in our lives. ” I don’t know what to give” is a statement from a lazy, thoughtless, self-focused person.
Who can remember getting a personally hand-made gift that came home with the kids on the last day of school before Christmas break? Knowing that they were thinking of you and how much they love you while they were making it is what made that gift so special. Knowing it came from their heart made it a perfect masterpiece. It is not expensive to be thoughtful. It is always disappointing to have to deal with a selfish cheapskate in your family.

Money should never come between family. Perfect example, my brother is well off and I allow him to pick up the tab anytime we have family ‘get-together’s.’ As long as everyone knows their role, there shouldn’t be an issue

I understand you your brother is frugal, and I agree — either have fun giving if the receiver is grateful and appreciative, or find other ways to give. DOES HE SAY THANK YOU AND ENJOY THE WINE AND THE FOOD?

Stop being a martyr. Simply say to your brother: Fred we’ve decided not to exchange gifts this year but rather make a donation to charity in your name. That will stop the “spending wars” immediately. Before the next party, gather the family together and agree on an amount for everyone to contribute to the cost.

I’m glad to see so many people being sensible here. I refuse to spend money on someone just because they want to spend money on my or my kids. I tell everyone not to buy me presents for christmas or birthdays, but I appreciate gifts that are made or time that is spent. I try to return the same kind of thoughtfulness

Well, gee. Sounds like the questioner is missing the spirit of giving! I think Anthony’s advice is spot on.

If this has happened more than one year, then guess what? The brother HAS effectively communicated that he doesn’t want to be involved in a spending war. Unless the questioner provides more information, we have no reason to assume that the brother is trying to take advantage or that the brother would be upset if his kids got similarly inexpensive presents.

Anyway, somewhere I read that according to survey evidence roughly 1/3 of all gifts given in America are “unwanted”– i.e., even if the recipient appreciates the thought, the specific gift itself is not wanted.

I disagree about the brother being wrong for accepting expensive gifts when he gives cheap gifts. If your focus for giving Chrsitmas gifts is the expectation of something in exchange, then you may have missed the point of the holiday. That said, I agree it is probably socially uncooth and embarassing to be that cheap to give a $2.00 comic book for Christmas. I would not complain or make an issue of it, as this makes you look just as petty. I just would not spend a lot the following Christmas.

There is a total complete lack of communication here,between you and your brother and the kids.If you asked each other and told
each other,of the plans for parties and presents and stuff,there would be more clarity.
Joanne http://jc1971.wordpress.com

Growing up, my family was caught in a “spending war” at Christmas with my grandparents. They spent a TON of money on us (on useless stuff we didn’t want), and despite our requests to limit the dollar amount on gifts, they always ignored it. So my parents spent money they DIDN’T have to make things equal.

Now that I’m grown and have my own family, I’m determined to not let what someone else chooses to spend influence my decision (at least not too much). I choose gifts that the recipient will like… sometimes that’s a $10 item, sometimes it’s $100. And I make an effort to NOT spend money equally, but rather to spend an equal amount of time and energy researching the perfect gift.

One year, my husband and I drew our entire extended family in characature, in a giant Christmas scene (my kung-fu sister swinging around the christmas tree, grandpa in his favorite old Chevy hauling the Yule log, etc). The cost? Hours and hours of our time, plus a few bucks in printing costs. And guess what was the favorite gift that year?

Another year, I spent hours editing all our family video, and gave everyone a “best of” home video tape. We all still watch them from time to time, but the cheese grater I got went to Goodwill long ago.

Getting back to your issue, if your son loved comic books (or even if your brother THOUGHT he’d like comic books), then a $2 gift might have been the perfect gift.

It sounds like you’re a materialistic individual - rather than appriciating the joy of giving your nephews a gift (large or small), you’re missing the entire point of the christmas season. It’s about GIVING, not getting. And more than just blindly spending money, it’s about the thought behind the gift.

My in-laws have lavished money on my husband and I. I do feel a little guilt sometimes, but we really don’t have the money to give equal dollar gifts back. But they’re wonderful, loving people. They give because they WANT to, not because they expect an equal amount in return. I think they should be the model that all gift givers should be held to.

What if the $2 comic book was a collectible that was worth much more or would be worth more in the future?

The question lacks too much detail to give an answer. Depends on the following things:
1. What is your definition of ‘nice’ wine?
2. What is your brother’s financial situation compared to yours?
3. I have to agree that a 2$ comic book is cheap, but what are your brother’s values? Is it because he doesn’t like to spend $$ on others, or because he thinks kids shouldn’t be spoiled?

I agree with the poster who said that most of the Millionaires Next Door are like the “stingy” brother. The ones who like to spend either have a lot of money or have high debt ratios.

If the stingy brother agreed in advance to pay for the “nice” wine, then he should have paid, but if he didn’t agree to the expense then he does not owe. And, is the father a wine connoseur, would it really matter to him?

As for the gifts to the kids, I think kids nowadays get too many and expensive presents and they seldom appeciate them. Either give his kids the gifts you want or scale down your expense on them, they’re for THEM anyway, not your brother.

Me, I mostly treat others exactly as they treat me. But if the person(s) is poor and not a parasite, I treat them better without any requirements for reciprocation. It’s the parasites that take and take that I resent.

Nothing is mine or yours. Everything we have, including our life is a gift from God. God has given us everything without expecting anything in return. We cannot take anything back with us. We should be using gifts given by God wisely. Regarding gifts, if you want to give a real gift to someone, please do not expect anything back (not even a thank you card), otherwise it is not a gift. If you are giving a gift and expecting something in return, you are wasting the resources given by God to you.

Russel, relax before you have a stroke. Now, let’s focus on the topic, and not make this a political issue…

My word, the sick little moralists in this group!

OWE? What the heck?

Lots of liberals here who believe in the redistribution of wealth….great, life under Hillary will be just so grand.

You little morons seem to think that the family is comprised of the welfare state in miniature.

Careful brother owes nothing to his whiny, Democrat, sycophantic, nasal, whitling, feckless, thieving, and altogether arrogant and self-serving “brother.”

The man shouldn’t even be taking up oxygen in the same room as his successful sibling.

Are you guys serious? Our kids are being killed in a country thousands of miles away.And this is what you choose to complain about?

I am astonished, AGAIN, by all those here who think “relative income,” is an issue.

It matters not whether I own 10,000x what my brother does - this ENTITLES him to nothing; nice gifts or otherwise.

Further, if a party is to be held, and my contribution requested, let me agree to the expense. Our correspondent didn’t offer a choice to his brother, but spent money in the expectation of a payback or sharing arrangement. Try asking, it works.

As far as gifts - yep, I would give a $2 comic book to my nephew, though I can AFFORD a $2,000 gift with ease. Why give the comic book? Because his father is a moralistic moron with his head in the sand who hates the concept of ANYTHING not tied to glamor, glitz, and conspicuous consumption. More to the point….that’s what my nephew asks for. He collects comic books, you see.

Good Grief, get together as a family and agree on how much to spend on gifts for kids and siblings. This will save everyone’s feelings. Or, how about having the kids draw names and each child buys a gift for another child? This is a lot more fun for the kids, and they get to participate in the gift giving instead of just being the recipient. Or, how about having the kids go down and take a tag off the angel tree and buy a gift for a less fortunate child? That might be a nice experience. As far as the party, the expenses should be agreed on ahead of time. If one brother doesn’t think that nice wine is necessary, maybe the brother that thinks it is should pay the extra cost. It sounds like if the frugal brother was paying for the party, he wouldn’t be serving it. Also, we don’t know if the brothers have equal income and expenses. This might explain a lot.

This is interesting - my husband’s sister is married to a millionaire (sterling not dollars) and when we first got married, it was really hard with presents.

They would lavish on us and we could not reciprocate at the same level as we have too many outgoings.

In the end, we came to a compromise in that we agreed a price limit on Xmas presents. For birthdays, we each write a list which can range from candles to clothes so anyone can spend what they like and know the recipient really wants the gift.

It seems to work!

You cannot plan a party at your expense comfort and expect or demand that someone else conform to your expectations.

If your brother wanted to spend twice what you did on a gift or party, would that make you a cheapscate, or would it make him an unreasonable jerk?

If you give better gifts and you think that there is some sort of gift giving competition, then you can either keep giving at a level you feel comfortable with or change. If your brother feels right about his contributions and you don’t ,then that is your problem not his.

Maybe the brother spending all the money should read The Millionaire Next Door. I’ll bet his “cheapskate” brother has!!

yup, cheapskate. I am cheap when it comes to spending money on myself, but
for family, i try to give my best.
It hurts a little, but it’s all worth the smile on the faces.

I was raised to believe that gifts should be freely given by the giver, with no expectation for a return gift…this would be a barter in my mind.

If the comic book was one your child enjoyed then it should be accepted gratefully. The gifts given to your brother’s children should be rated on how they enjoyed them - not compared to what your children received.

Keeping tally with a sibling is no way to enjoy life, and I don’t think it’s ethical to ask someone to spend more than they are willing if it doesn’t match your contribution. Essentially the writer is complaining about spending more than he is willing too!

The guy’s a cheapskate period. You can rationalize it and talk around it all you want. When people aren’t willing to spend money on (or with) their family members, they are either broke, or a cheapskate, period.

I think it is a sad commentary that this is an issue. People give what they want to give. If you are putting price tags on the gifts, shame on you. If you want your parents to have something substantially better than what everyone agrees to, foot the bill. Will the whining never cease?

In my opinion, the author of the letter is the selfish one. In both examples, what he gave is based only on what he expected to get back. There is no generosity involved.

Also in both examples, the author equates “nice” with being costly.

It is only a gift if you expect nothing in return, otherwise it is an obligation.

In genenal, the comments here have been about POWER and CONTROL which are the most corrosive agents in inter-personal relationships. You cannot change another person, only force an immediate behavior through application of your influence. You are writing about people that you love - remember that. Forcing someone to act in a way that does not correspond with their values will only erode trust that has been built. Be careful to recognize that you can only change yourself.

“The cheapest, most thoughtless gifts my children get are from the wealthiest people we know, and I mean wealthy. The poorer people actually go out of their way to find nicer things. Ironic.”

In response to this statement, maybe that is why the wealthy are wealthy and the poor are poor. The wealthy don’t spend the money they have and the poor spend money they don’t have!

How someone spends their own earned money is certainly not an “outsiders” business, family or not. But the truth is that attitudes toward money are often indicative of how one approaches their whole life. My guess is that these siblings probably have issues that have spanned their childhood. One feels like they are constantly giving of themself while the other accepts and enjoys the gifts of money, support, etc. without reciprocation.

I have a feeling that the “cheap skate” brother withholds in other aspects of his life. The question is did the “cheap skate” brother offer to lend his services to another area of the party since he either wasn’t comfortable or able to contribute his money? For example, did he offer to run errands, to tie any up any loose ends, help with clean-up, dive head first into the planning? Did he take another talent he has to really make this a special event and spend his emotional currency instead of monetary? I have a feeling he didn’t.

I think that most people on this thread have sided with the brother they are most like. Only a few have tried to take it from both perspectives. People seem to be taking this topic of cheap vs frugal very personally. As if this were a battle between the generous and the spendthrift to who’s better.

Money is a strange beast. Not merely a way of exchanging goods/services…it has become many other things…one of them being a way to mark a person’s generosity or how much they care. Sometimes we forget that generosity can be shown in other, more meaningful ways.

Sounds like there are more problems with your brother than what he does or doesn’t want to spend.

If giving a gift is conditional on what you get in return, maybe you shouldn’t buy others gifts and just buy for yourself what you expect to get in return. Gift giving should never be a barter system, it should be genuine.

there is a difference between having money and not spending it and not having money.

if he doesnt have money, dont complain. if he has it, complain

Why are people giving Christmas gifts to their Brother’s, Sister’s and neighbor’s kids anyway? It ends up showering the kids with toys they are neither interested in or want that much, and it adds endless clutter. Do we really need that huge pile of plastic junk on the dining room table the day after Christmas, with no place to put it?

One of the blessings of being part of a large family is that I have learned that one of my siblings is a jerk. I am under no obligation to associate with him. If “Mr. Frugal-Cheapskate” doesn’t behave the way you want him to, simply stop having anything to do with him.

I only give to the children of our family and mom. Some of the others will buy for the adults, but I only spend on the children. I do not attend all of the family fuctions because they travel and spend too much money. But I will attend most of the family fuctions, just not the vacations to Hilton Head.
If you buy me a gift I will take it use it and appreciate the gift. I may in return buy a gift card ($15.00) and mail it with a thank you card. Unless the item is realistic in value then I will accept it with just a thank you.
Cheap or not, I do not spend to impress.

He is neither a tightwad nor a cheapskate. He is clearly wise with his money. Based on the comments here, it’s clear why there are not even more millionaires in this country. Keep spending please! My portfolio loves it and I’m sure his does too.

I have read many of the above comments and agree with things from both sides of the table. However, being a brother myself who does more and spends more for my parents and relatives than my younger sister and brother-in-law do, I have to sympathize a little more for the spender brother.
Also, I think there is a lot more going on here than money. This is not about being a cheapskate. If this was about money, the spending brother would not care about the money itself. In my case, I feel that I am always giving to my parents, and my sister is always taking from them. They hardly ever spend money or time for them, but will take from them. In a nutshell, there are 2 types of people in this world: givers and takers!
I don’t know if the frugal brother is a taker, but he definitely is not much of a giver. It is the personality - money is just one of the aspects of the issue. I had to stop inviting my sister because she would hardly ever invite us over, and she would never offer to bring or make anything. But if she ever invited to her house my Mom or her In-law would make the food. My sister and bro-in-law moved in with my parents after their lease expired, and never offered to pay rent or do anything around the house. Their combined income was probably close to $200K, so frugal, cheapskate, or freeloader - all of the above.

Anyways, I can go on. But like I said, there is more to this than the actual money. It is about one person going through more effort than the other. Do what you think is right for you and your family and his kids, and don’t waste your time on people who don’t care or appreciate thoughts and efforts.

PS: The cheapest, most thoughtless gifts my children get are from the wealthiest people we know, and I mean wealthy. The poorer people actually go out of their way to find nicer things. Ironic.

The presents bought are for the children, correct?
So regardless of what the ‘tight’ brother spends, that should really not affect the other brother giving presents to his brother’s children.
A gift is given because the giver wishes to give it, it shouldn’t be under force, and if it is under force, then the whole point has been missed.

We had similar problems in my family when i was growing up, my father’s sister didn’t like having to buy presents for our family because my father had 4 children, and they only had 3,2 and 1 child. So in their warped opinions, they were having to give away more than they would be receiving. As a result, my siblings and I were cut from the gift giving element of the family christmas.

Though this personally didn’t bother me, as my family didn’t know me anymore than they knew a stranger and so gifts were always inappropriate (perfumed soaps, when i’m allergic to fragrances :P), it did upset my little brothers and sister, as they were unincluded.
The monetary value of the present had and shouldn’t have anything to do with it, it’s the thought.
If there was thought in the comic book, then who cares if it was cheap?
Can you be so sure your brother’s children actually enjoy the presents you buy them?
Price tags don’t always equal better gifts, especially if the gift is ill-suited to the recipient.

While i personally enjoy spending money on my family at christmas, i am in the financial position to do so. I do it because i like the feeling of making someone else happy, not in hope of receiving anything in return (i don’t receive gifts in return, being the eldest sibling). That’s what its really about.

On the issue of spending on your father, if there was no agreement and you knew your brother was hesitant to spend, then unfortunately you bear the cost. At the end of the day you can rest assured knowing that you made your father happy for the night, and that should be payment enough.

I really don’t understand all the people who judge the brother so harshly. His sister needs to accept him and get over it.

HOWEVER: I do know what I think of people who give a nice gift with expectations attached.

I do know what I know about people who use innocent children as pawns in their issue fueled rivalry.

Shame on some of the posters here.

Believe it or not, I have never had more fun at a $100 per person meal than I have had at a pot luck dinner with my friends or family. My brother’s wife, however, has to find out what place she wants to brag about having had a party and go there. Luckily, she always has an excuse not to come to a pot luck.

Am I a cheapskate? I always decline gifts, and if people insist I accept them, I always tell them upfront not to expect any gifts from me in RETURN. I am loath to accept anything from people who give only because they have to — because of some holiday — or because they expect something of equal or better value in return.

Cheapskate Philosophy 101. Enough with the cheapskate bashing. Christmas is a bunk holiday anyways - it lost its meaning long ago. I get extremely annoyed when people ask me what I want for Christmas - I always honestly say nothing and people think I am on drugs. I have a brother who is an extreme spendthrift and lives paycheck to paycheck but always buys nice presents. However, I bear the brunt of the crtitism from my family for my “miserly - leaning” state. However, to rebuke their position, I posit the question, which is more generous in the long run? The spendthrift who splurges during holiday periods but bums money the rest of the year or the cheapskate who never spends, never lives an indulgent life, and then grants $10,000,000 to a scholarship foundation 30 years down the road? Is it better to exist for mere frivolity or to be builder, an accumulator, an investor. Is it better to be Paris Hilton or Warren Buffett? Who has enhanced our society more in the long run? Which has had a greater impact on reducing the net present value of future human suffering?

Buying things for people is the lamest way to show affection, a 5 minute scramble to Wal-mart doesn’t define love in my book. Investing in others (either by developing them, spending time with them, or by funding and encouraging ventures in which they better themselves) is a more appropriate way to show magnanimity.

In the long run, gifts, by their very nature, can turn out to be curses to the giftee. Gifts can cause complacency and dependency. I know too many children who were “given” everything but were never truly invested in by their parents. Ironically, these children, who were given everything, often times turned out to be nothing later in life, especially once the leash had been cut.

Since we don’t know the relative expenses of each to their own income, it is difficult to say if one is right or wrong. Re the party, if there was agreement and the budget was there for all to see and it was agreed to, then the non paying brother is wrong. If the budget was specified and there was no acknowledgement or agreement but only an expectation of sharing, both are wrong, one for assuming and one for not making his position known (this happened to me). Re the comic book for a gift, it is up to the giver to give not to be told what to give. The gift of the comic book may be very good because it might have been something the son wanted (& then the price doesn’t matter) but it is a good present in that it reinforces a habit the son should develop and that is reading. Either way, it is the whiner’s problem and he should get over it. Control what you can, accept what you can’t and reognize the difference.

Your brother is a self centered *****. You cannot change him, so give the gifts you enjoy giving to him and his family and DO NOT expect anything in return

I earn about triple the amount of my younger sibling. As a result, I spend $50 on her for birthday and she spends $5 on me. If we dine out I always pick up the tab. This has never bothered me, but it drives my husband insane. It gives me joy to be able to “treat” her to something that she wouldn’t be able to afford on her own. Further, I have plenty of money and can afford to be generous. I have scaled back on my giving at my husband’s request, because it is our money now. However, I still don’t mind the lack of “balance”. I give only what I want and am able to give, and I don’t worry about what she gives me in return. I would advise the generous brother to give as much or as little as he feels comfortable with — with no expectations regarding reciprocity.

I’m totally speechless that so many on this blog would defend the cheap brother! A $2 Comic Book for Christmas? Come on! I’m the first to say that many people tend to go too crazy on extravagant Christmas gifts, but this is the other extreme! A $2 Comic Book for a nephew is completely inappropriate and downright insulting. As far as the party is concerned, I do agree that there should have been agreement beforehand on what was to be purchased, but if cheapskate brother assuming the brother who wrote the letter wasn’t entirely over the top, it was wrong for cheapskate brother to opt out of paying his share — I’m sure Dad put out a lot of money for cheapskate brother over the years. I’m all for frugality; but after all money in itself is nothing. It’s what you can do with it to bring happiness to yourself and others. If you get a lot of joy out of looking at your bank balance, then something is wrong with you!

What I have not seen mentioned here, and which I think is an important consideration, is a comparison of how frugal the brother is when buying stuff for himself versus buying for others.

I am a frugal person, so I don’t spend extravagantly on myself, nor on others. I do enjoy treating others to things that may be beyond their means on occasion, as another commenter posted, but I don’t feel obligated to buy really nice things for my friends and family when I don’t do so for myself.

Now if this guy’s house has the finest of everything, yet he won’t pitch in his fair share when it comes to spending on someone else, then he’s a cheapskate and he should be called to task for his stinginess.

I’ve been on both sides here, and the relationship was with my brother, just as the story relates. When I was in college, I was the one who couldn’t contribute, because I had nothing to give. Now my brother is in a similar situation because of health issues, and I’ve had to step up to the plate now that I am in a position to put a sizable sum into savings every month. And I’ve done so without ever asking for a penny back. You are all jumping on one side or the other, but we don’t have any background on which to base any opinions. This is why the media these days is so bad: they only tell you about the ugly dust, not the beautiful antique table it’s sitting on. Remember: we make knee-jerk reactions to what is immediately present to us. We react with true emotion only to that which we understand thoroughly.

I would give the brother a big burp.

Cheap and frugal are indeed different. I don’t have a brother, but I am very close to my son’s godparents. I earn quite a bit more than they do. I enjoy giving them gifts or treating them to entertainment that they simply cannot afford. I don’t expect them to “match” my gifts. They are gifted with a lot of artistic and craft oriented talent. While their gifts to us are less expensive, they spend a lot of time finding or making something for us that we could never buy. Therefore, I’d say my friends are frugal with their money, but generous with their love. That’s what giving is about.

Finally, I think your ire with your brother’s “cheapness” has more to do with your perception that the cost of a gift is directly correlated to how much he respects, loves, values you and your family. Sometimes small little things can mean the world, and large extravagant gestures can have no meaning at all. I’d say look past the money because it’s irrelevant. Ask yourself, “does he care or not?”

You should be thanking your brother for showing financial self-discipline.
Perhaps your kids will take note and not be condemned to a debtor’s life due to your poor example.

The daughter and boyfriend always order lots of drinks when someone else is paying. We now tend to go to restaurants that don’t have alcohol licenses and hence put an end to their alcoholic binges on our tab.

This really is a futile discussion. As many have already pointed out, way too many important details were left out of the letter to make any determination. Specifically the economic status of either of the brothers and whether or not the “nice wine” was agreed to by all in advance.

With this in mind, the posts in support of the “cheapskate” brother are definitely the most logical.

As I have reached my mid-30s, I’ve come to appreciate the thought behind a gift more than the monetary cost associated with it. It is possible to get a person a thoughtful, cheap gift - especially a kid. Unfortunately, the quality of being a cheapskate often (but not always) goes along with being selfish. It’s the selfishness that I hate more than the cheapness.

Also, quit with the gift scorekeeping - it will create another source of stress in your life, and it serves no purpose.

There is more going on here between your brother, and you. Sometimes you have to accept people as they are. If he hasn’t figured out, at his age, what is appropriate, he probably won’t. This happened in my family, and eventually we just stopped depending on the offending party; they were not embarrassed, and didn’t care. It said quite a bit about our relationship. Good luck.

Interesting; I’ve lived on both sides of this fence. For years I didn’t handle my money well at all, and acted like this brother did on almost every occasion. A few years ago I did a major turnaround, paid off all my debt and in doing so was very cheap - with myself. Now that I manage the money I do have, I’m far more generous with it. Now I’m the one paying the difference in tips when “cheap” guests don’t want to put in their fair share, and I have no problem paying for events that call for a little more expense.

There will always be tightwads and cheapskates around, and not everyone who refuses to pay is simply frugal. It’s up to you to decide whether you want to pay the difference for someone else. Paying money unnecessarily because you’re “supposed to” is foolish; if you can’t afford something, then be honest about it. But if that’s the case, don’t mooch off everyone else. Trust me, they can all see what’s happening.

Regardless how much one spends on gift’s, one should always be frugal with money. As in your brother’s case, he does not choose to compete with your lavish gifts. He bought what he thinks is right. As for the party, he does not want to over stuff guests with unnecessary expenditure. This is how millionaires are made.

I agree with the majority - the “cheap” brother buys the gifts and the wine he’s comfortable buying. If his siblings want to spend more on gifts or party food, that’s their business. He’s under no obligation to increase his spending because his other family members consider it “customary.” If that makes them angry and resentful, it says more about them that it does about him.

Slice and dice it anyway you want to, but the brother is cheap and selfish. Those here who are protesting the most are probably equally as cheap and selfish

It sounds like everyone on here is a cheapskate and a back stabber. The majority of comments I read are that the brother should take the poster’s money and should only look out for number 1. You also say it is the poster’s fault for being generous. If we spend money on anyone shouldn’t it be our families and our kids? And for you father, a very important family member, shouldn’t you splurge a bit and get some nice wine that he may like but only have on certain occasions? The brother is a cheapskate. And for Christmas, 1 comic book? Maybe a small stack, or if the 1 was a limited edition, but splurge a bit on your kids. You people are saying that spending money is bad and you shouldn’t spend it on family from the sounds of it. I can’t believe some of the comments. You shouldn’t take advantage of someone who is generous, either say I can’t afford to spend that much money so don’t buy such expensive things or pony up. Too many people take generosity for granted and don’t show the proper gratitude, which is apparently the majority of people who posted here.

What do you want, look rich and be poor or look poor and be rich? I would prefer the latter.

Since the giving brother is “so” generous, what percentage of his income is he giving to charity? Yes, it’s a bogus question: just as bogus as criticizing how someone else uses his own income!

This is just another case of someone being frustrated because his unspoken “expectations” were not met. Sounds a bit like a control issue to me. I guess blood is thicker than water but not cash flow.

My brother gives my kids more expensive gifts than the the ones I give to his kids. They enjoy the gifts. He doesn’t complain. Just because he and his wife like to spend more doesn’t mean that I have to do the same.. The brother in this example doesn’t have to buy expensive gifts. Next time spend less money. When you give a gift you do so out of love and shouldn’t expect something back in return, especially of the same value. The author got it wrong in this one.

He’s a major skinflint. You only live once, so treat others especially family well & that includes spending. I give money for every occasion unless the receiver is wealthy.

Being cheap is being smart. I always shop at the dollar store for gifts. If the person doesn’t like it, it’s no big deal. I only spend a large amount of money on myself. Giving gifts and paying for things is not wise because people are only out to use you for your money. I think your brother is smart by letting you buy expensive stuff and pay for expensive things. He gets more for his money this way. You should continue to spend large amounts of money and get cheap gifts in return.

If he doesn’t live high on the hog himself and is thrifty/frugal and cheap with himself then that is who he is and you cannot force him to change. As for nice wine at the party. I happen to choose not to drink and my sister lives in Europe and when she comes home and we split the costs- amazingly I always get stuck paying for half of the wine. Fair? I don’t think so - Depends on my mood, I either pick up the entire bill or ask for separate checks.

Well, well - once again the liberals stomp on individual freedom in favor of social convention.
The whiner made CHOICES at each stage which could have moderated his exposure to his brothers’ frugality - and yet, didn’t choose wisely.
The word “always,”…repeated thrice I think - is the big tell.
1. “We always give his kids nice gifts - he gives my son a comic book.” Well, “always,” covers off on this - if reciprocation is your aim, cease and desist, brother dear isn’t going to. If your aim is proving to everyone how wealthy you are, live with it.
2. “Wouldn’t pay for the wine…” Well, if you knew this in advance (which you should have, not cleared the expense and arrangements AFTER you incurred them in the hopes of recompense) you have no leg to stand on whatsoever. If our potential cheapskate AGREED to the expenses in advanced and then bailed - bad boy he.
Overall, you are a pathetic, moaning whiner - and how your brother spends his money IS his business. Knowing this, moderate your own expenditures or choose to be generous - but either way accept these as YOUR CHOICES.

Being frugal is how I choose to shape my lifestyle. Being cheap is when I try to force my lifestyle upon others.

I think with the Dad’s b-day, if you all agreed everyone would chip in equally then he was being cheap.

But presents are a different story. You are CHOOSING to give his kids expensive gifts. And, likewise, he is choosing to give your kids inexpensive ones. He’s not forcing you to buy an expensive present.

Gifts are given from the heart with no strings attached. What someone earns is nobody’s business but their own. How someone spends their money is also no one elses business.
People prudent with their money need to think of themselves first in regards to retirement. This looks selfish in other’s eyes, but is the only way some of us will be able to make out when we retire. when it comes to money, we need to think of ourselves first.
Gifts need not be expensive. Spending time with loved ones and having a relationship is much more important than the price of wine.

Based on the information that it is given - it is not clear whether he is or isn’t.
I agree with Charlie from Grand Rapids MI on his points. If his income is considerably less than yours than you should let things be and accept it. He is your brother. But at the same time if he is just a miser and doesn’t like to spend what’s the point? If you can’t spend your money on your family and the people you love then what good is having it??

What kind of arrogant sob would make his CHILD complain to the uncle about a gift? No one here mentions how the child felt about receiving a comic book. Did he like it? Was it something he wanted - and the uncle knew this? The kid’s parent needs to focus more on his child and not on the monetary value of the present his child received. Seriously! I personally would be thrilled to receive an inexpensive comic book, rather than an expensive tech tool (that will break), if it was something I was dying for and my dad wouldn’t listen to my pleas. But my uncle understood. I’d rather be taken for an ice cream in good company than for a steak with bad company.

A gift by definition is something you give WITHOUT demanding something (and definitely not something of equal value) in return. Plus, you are not giving it to him. You are giving it to his kids. Yes, adults should be responsible for their kids, but if he wants to actually discpline his kids and not turn them into materialistic zombies, that is up to him. As for the father’s party. Who wanted the EXPENSIVE wine. I remember for my father’s party, my PRESENT (my being there, not a gift or money, or expensive food) and my sincere love and concern for him was what made him happy. (I even dare to question is the wine for your father or for you? Most likely, it is simply an excuse for you to spoiler ourself in your father’s name.)

Both the author of the question and the author of the answer really need to understand that money is simply, money. Honestly, live how you are comfortable living, and stop imposing your idealistic, credit card driven ways on others.

When you learn to love your family members and friends unconditionally you give without expectation of anything in return. You spoil the act when it becomes a tit for tat. Feel blessed that you have been awarded the opportunity to share in your good fortunes, but judge not for every finger you point at someone else three are pointing back at you.

Let the kids complain? Nice way to raise children….Oh that gift has a low $ value so go complain. Why do you care so much about how somebody spends their $. Who are you to be the judge anyway, you have no idea what his true finances are—here’s a clue—some people are so backed up in debt they don’t have it to shell out. Oh, and others are just racking it up on their credit to appear to have “plenty” and be so “generous”. A girft is something given freely and isn’t supposed to be judged.

Why get into a fight with a brother? If he’s cheapskate so what? Is arguing going to change him? No. So just put up with it and avoid a fight.

Man he is cheap!

Your brother has the right to spend whatever he wants on whatever he wants.

You have the right to call him whatever you want.

I would just recognize that we are all different, and not worry about it.

A few factual points missing from the situation description:
1) Do the two brothers have equal income, and therefore are equally able to spend discretionary income?
2) Do the two brothers have equal expenses (e.g. same number of children to support, presumably through college?)
3) Are the two brothers equally preparing for eventual retirement?
4) Were the arrangements for the Fathers birthday party agreed to in advance? (did the ‘cheapskate’ brother protest in advance, and the ‘extravagent’ brother proceed with purchasing expensive wine anyway?
5) How much difference in the price of gifts? $2.00 Comic book versus $100.00 MP3 player, or what?

Just a few more …”it all depends…”

my 2 cents

Are the presents to the brother or to the kids? Why should one let one’s brother’s behavior determine what presents to give to nephews and nieces? Are presents toted up on a presents balance sheet? Is it necessary to give expensive presents? Some of the best things I received as a child were inexpensive but thoughtful items from Aunts and Uncles.

I disagree with the presents part. A gift is a gift, not some obligation to provide a equal valued gift in return. If you choose to give him a new Lexus, does that obligate him to give you one in return? If it does, it’s not a gift.

I find it annoying when people expect others to go along and pony up cash because they feel it’s important. Everyones idea of a party or present is different and those people who force their ideas on others and then call them cheap because they don’t go along are self-righteous. I make more money then anyone in my family, but I don’t expect them to help pay for any of my expensive tastes when we get together. There is a difference between asking someone to contribute, and expeecting them to pay for your personal tastes. Unless the brother is refusing to help at all, calling him tight or cheap is unfair.

That is why my brothers and I got together and agreed upon price caps for gifts for us and kids. It really makes life much easier to know everyone has agreed on certain conditions.

I agree on the parents birthday. For goodness sake, it’s your father or mother. You should go a little overboard for someone who raised you.

As for the presents, I would just give equal presents back. If he gives comic books. Then you should give something of equal value back to his kids.

The one thing you failed to mention was your brother’s income. That could also play a role in this world of ever increasing prices for the basic necessities.

Without any other information, I would consider him a cheapskate.

I don’t agree on these counts:

“If your brother was unwilling to pony up for his share of the food and drink that others in your family agreed would be customary for your father’s party, then he’s a cheapskate.”

He has the right to differ in his opinion (note that it says, “what OTHERS agreed upon”) and should not be forced into contributing to an expense that others deem reasonable.

“You have every right to protest and every right to insist on being reimbursed. ”

Again, obviously not in agreement. Only if he agreed to something he got equal use out of but refused to pay an equal share, would that statement make sense.

“Now about those nice presents you’ve been giving your brother’s kids: Has he happily accepted them and said nothing, or has he let you know he thought they were extravagant? If he’s said nothing, you again have a right to complain. Because unless he’s told you he doesn’t want to exchange expensive gifts, your brother has no business reaping the benefits of your willingness to do what he won’t - spend money on other people.”

Total hogwash! Gifts are given AT THE DISCRETION OF THE GIVER, and do not constitute any contract to repay in kind. Don’t give the kids expensive gifts if it makes you subsequently ungrateful regarding the value of a gift he got for your kid. This kind of thinking makes me sick - that there is an unspoken agreement about value of gifts, and the agreement is sealed once a gift is offered and accepted - and for crying out loud, we’re not even talking about gifts between two adults here (in which case this ridiculous argument MIGHT make more sense) but we’re talking about gifts given directly to kids. WHO’s reaping the benefits from the gifts? HE doesn’t technically accept them - the kids do! - unless you are using the kids as a front to conduct transactions with him, in which case, just say so and be aboveboard about the financial game you’re trying to draw your brother into. If you expect something back when you shell out for his kids, for blank’s sake, don’t shell out for the kids! Hope it makes you feel better to withhold something from his kids and feel like you played tit for tat with your brother. Then again, with this attitude, I wonder if the gifts for the kids were meant in sincerity or as some kind of investment, expecting a return.

The greed level running through this Q&A is unbelievable!

I think you need to stop spending on his kids & let his kids complain to him.

What a bogus response. A GIFT is a gift, and if someone wants to spend a lot of money on a gift then that’s up to them. The “cheapskate” brother isn’t obligated to spend the same amount OR to tell his brother that it’s too extravagant. That the “cheapskate” brother’s kid benefits from having an uncle who will give him expensive gifts says nothing about the “cheapskate” brother! Now, with regard to paying for a father’s birthday party, the costs need to be agreed upon FIRST. That wasn’t clear if it was or not. If the “cheapskate” brother doesn’t agree to pay as big a portion as the rest of the siblings then EITHER they all agree to pay the same smaller amount he agrees to pay OR they let the brother pay what he’s comfortable paying and then decide among themselves if they want to pay more. Unless they know that this brother is very wealthy and they know how much money he makes and what his financial obligations are, they don’t get to determine if he’s a cheapskate anyway. This response of yours Jeanne and Leonard was really off the mark.

Gifts are gifts. If it bothers you do not give his kids gifts , otherwise do what makes you happy. Also not noted is the brother’s finacial condition. Does he make as much as the free spending brother? Other people’s finaces are none of your business.